Believe Your Eyes: The ACC is a Bad Free Throw Shooting Conference

Posted by KCarpenter on February 15th, 2013

Last night, the Clemson Tigers defeated the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets, 56-53. In the win, the Tigers shot 9-of-17 from the free throw line, good for a not-exactly-world-beating 52.9%. It was a below-average performance for Clemson, but not a massive outlier. On the season, the Tigers are shooting 66.5% from the line, which is the 254th best mark in Division I. Of course, ACC fans know, that for whatever reason, Clemson has been a bad free-throw shooting team for the better part of the past decade. The Tigers’ woes are old news. It’s not just Clemson that’s struggling with free throws this year, though: It’s the whole conference.

Take Note, ACC Players...

Take Note, ACC Players…

It’s strange to hear an entire conference of fans lament that their team is “terrible” at the charity stripe, yet that’s what I’ve heard this year. Of course, people’s observations are prone to all sorts of psychological biases, so maybe it just seems like everyone is bad at shooting free throws? Not really. Considering only conference games, the ACC teams are shooting 66.8% from the charity stripe — good for 30th best among 32 D-I conferences. In recent history, the ACC has been in the better half of free-throw shooting conferences every year since 2003. It’s not just one team dragging the average down, either: 10 of the 12 conference teams are having worse shooting years than they did last year. Only Duke and Florida State are shooting better than last season, due almost entirely to Mason Plumlee‘s significant improvement in the case of Duke and the graduation of Bernard James from Florida State.

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Award Tour: Mason Plumlee Back at No. 1; A Farewell to Nerlens Noel

Posted by DCassilo on February 15th, 2013

awardtour

David Cassilo is an RTC columnist who also writes about college basketball for SLAM magazine. You can follow him at @dcassilo.

College basketball suffered a devastating loss when news broke that Nerlens Noel had torn his ACL in Tuesday’s game against Florida. Perhaps the best defender in the country, Noel was starting to come into his own offensively. The injury has once again sparked the debate about the one-and-done rule. First of all, know your target with this debate. It’s the NBA, not the NCAA. David Stern came up with the rule, but the biggest effects have been seen in college basketball. The positive for the NCAA has been increased exposure. Everyone wants a chance to see players like Noel before they hit the big show. But on the flip side, it’s tough on coaches who can’t plan their recruiting as easily as they used to. And finally, there’s the health risk for the player. This is another reason why I think there needs to be some sort of union-like body watching out for college athletes’ interest. If we knew a player like Noel would be taken care of financially in the event of an injury, I don’t think people would have as big a problem with the one-and-done rule.

PLAYER OF THE YEAR

10. Kelly Olynyk – Gonzaga (Last week – NR)
2012-13 stats: 17.7 PPG, 6.8 RPG

The big man for Gonzaga is as consistent as they come, seemingly giving the Bulldogs somewhere between 15 and 20 points every single night. Some say this is the best Gonzaga team ever, and he deserves much of the credit for that. This week: February 16 at San Francisco, February 20 vs. Santa Clara

9. Ben McLemore – Kansas (Last week – 7)
2012-13 stats: 16.8 PPG, 5.5 RPG

The drop for McLemore is mostly because of the terrific weeks by other players on this list. The freshman didn’t do too badly himself, as he poured in 30 points in a win over Kansas State. This week: February 16 vs. Texas, February 20 at Oklahoma State

8. Deshaun Thomas – Ohio State (Last week – 4)
2012-13 stats: 20.2 PPG, 6.2 RPG

Deshaun Thomas Makes the Buckeyes Very Tough to Beat

Deshaun Thomas Makes the Buckeyes Very Tough to Beat

As one of the few Buckeyes that can score, Thomas keeps posting 20-point games because he keeps getting a lot of shots. The junior has taken at least 15 shots in each of his last five games and fewer than 11 just once all season. This week: February 17 at Wisconsin, February 20 vs. Minnesota

7. Doug McDermott – Creighton (Last Week – 3)
2012-13 stats: 23 PPG, 7.7 RPG

Losers of three straight and perhaps headed for a seat on the bubble, McDermott’s team is playing him out of the Player of the Year race. While he has played well, he’s missing the memorable performances he needs to overcome everything working against him. This week: February 16 at Evansville, February 19 vs. Southern Illinois Read the rest of this entry »

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Pac-12 Burning Question: Who Can Drop 53?

Posted by AMurawa on February 15th, 2013

Our Pac-12 commentators are back with their answers to the biggest questions around the conference. This week:

“Last week Nate Wolters of South Dakota State went for 53 points in a game. If you had to put your money on one Pac-12 player breaking out for 53 points, who would it be?”

Reader’s Take

 

Adam Butler: There’s a team in Seattle that struggles with their identity some. They’d been built on run-and-gun, a throwback to the Pac-12 of old and the sweet spot for Lorenzo Romar. This year, however, they’ve run into some growing pains as they work to implement a new high post offense; a response to the oft criticized Husky half-court scoring ability. Through those pains they’ve learned to lock things down and play some defense. But that doesn’t mean they can’t get out and run it some and if you force them into it – as Arizona State did two weeks back – they can score with the best of them. As such, when pushed into such a pace, I think their top scorer and certainly one of the conference’s best, C.J. Wilcox, is the man to reach 52. There’s a dedicated effort to get that man the ball and, more often than not, he’s a tremendously capable scorer. Already he’s put up games of 28, 27, 27, and 25 and shoots at a 45% clip. The silky smooth shooter runs in an offense that needs him to succeed. That combination – skill and necessity – makes Wilcox my vote for Most Likely to Drop 53.

With Limited Scoring Options On The Husky Team, Maybe C.J. Wilcox Is The Guy Who Could Go For 53 (Pac-12)

With Limited Scoring Options On The Husky Team, Maybe C.J. Wilcox Is The Guy Who Could Go For 53 (Pac-12)

Parker Baruh: If I have to pick one player to drop 53 this season, I’d have to go with Allen Crabbe. Yes, it’s not a bold choice considering he leads the league in scoring at 19.8 points per game, but Crabbe has the best chance because of his efficiency and his ability to hurt opponents from all parts of the floor. He’s shooting a career high 48 percent from the field this year and his true shooting percentage is also at a career high at 59 percent. Although he’s shooting a career low 35 percent from three, he’s still proved many times this year he’s the best scorer in the conference. Earlier in the season, he had 27 points on 9-of-12 shooting against USC and had 23 points on 8-of-15 shooting against Utah. Recently, in arguably his best performance in a Cal uniform, he was instrumental in the Bears’ upset win over Arizona shooting a ridiculous 12-of-15 from the field while tallying 31 points. Ultimately, no one in the Pac-12 is capable of scoring 53, but if I had to choose one, I’m going with someone who can single-handedly win games for his team when he has the hot hand, and that’s Crabbe.

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Set Your DVR: Weekend Edition

Posted by bmulvihill on February 15th, 2013

setDVR

Brendon Mulvihill is an RTC contributor. You can find him @TheMulv on Twitter. See bottom of the post for the Official RTC Star System.

While there may not be as many marquee match-ups this weekend, the games in the Big East, MW, and Big Ten are extremely important to their conference races. It’s nail biting time for college hoops fans across the country as teams play for their tourney positioning. Should be a good weekend of hoops, so let’s get to the breakdowns!

#16 Georgetown at Cincinnati – 9:00 PM EST, Friday on ESPN (****)

John Thompson III Has His Hoyas Playing At A High Level (Getty)

John Thompson III Has His Hoyas Playing At A High Level (Getty)

  • Georgetown is in a three-way tie at the top of the Big East with Syracuse and Marquette after the Orange lost at UConn on Wednesday. At this point though, half the conference still has a chance to catch them. Despite their inconsistency, Cincinnati is still one of those teams. The Bearcats have been living and dying by the three-point shot. In their last three games, they were 3-13 against Providence, 4-25 against Pitt, and 12-25 against Villanova. It’s fairly easy to tell which games they won and which they lost (losses to Providence and Pitt with a win against Villanova, in case it wasn’t clear). In Big East play, Cincinnati shoots 43% of its field goal attempts from beyond the arc, while only making 30.5% of them. If you recall, Michigan looked like this in the past and had a tough time being consistent, as well. Georgetown will allow teams to get off three-point shots, but teams are only making 28.8% of those shots in the Big East. If you follow Ken Pomeroy, he will tell you the former is more important, so watch closely to see if the Bearcats can take advantage by actually knocking down the deep ball. The Hoyas length may be tough to shoot over, however. Speaking of length, 6’8″ Georgetown forward Otto Porter is on fire recently. Porter is averaging 18.5 points in his last nine games. Not coincidentally  the Hoyas are 8-1 in that stretch. The Cincinnati defense is struggling to stop teams from scoring in the paint, so look for Porter to have another big game. If the Bearcats can’t stop Porter and they can’t make threes, they are going to have a tough time winning.

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Pac-12 M5: 02.15.13 Edition

Posted by Connor Pelton on February 15th, 2013

pac12_morning5

  1. Colorado got a big win last night against Arizona, avenging its controversial loss against the Wildcats earlier in the season by cruising to a 71-58 victory. The C-Unit reacted in joyous celebration, pouring onto the court as the final buzzer sounded to celebrate the top ten win with the Bufffalo players. In his post game press conference, head coach Tad Boyle said, “This is the last time we storm the court at home. We expect to win.” And while there is certainly no problem having confidence in your team, this is just the latest instance of coaches, players, and media personalities trying to limit court rushes and set parameters on how and when to do it. This needs to stop. Rushing the court is a spontaneous event in which you are just so happy that you have to share it with thousands of other students and the players that made you that way. WHO CARES IF IT’S UNWARRANTED? It doesn’t ruin court-rushes in the future, or take the specialness out of it. If one’s favorite team is about to pull a huge late-season upset, no one is going to stop and think in the final seconds whether Maryland’s storming after beating NC State was warranted. That’s because they’re ready to celebrate and have some fun. So please people, stop dictating and start rushing. Life will be a lot more fun.
  2. The rosters for the 2013 McDonald’s All-American game were released yesterday, and three Pac-12 signees/commitments will be taking part in the festivities. Rondae Jefferson, Jabari Bird, and Nigel Williams-Goss (signed or committed to Arizona, California, and Washington, respectively) are the three that will be playing Pac-12 ball season. Archbishop Mitty power forward Aaron Gordon will also play in the game. Gordon’s athleticism and ability to get to the rim make him one of the most sought after undecided prospects in the nation. He has narrowed his list down to Washington, Arizona, Kentucky, and Oregon.
  3. There is no doubt about it, Oregon basketball is back and relevant on a national level. It’s huge win at Washington on Wednesday clinched the Ducks third straight season with at least 20 wins, the first time that’s happened in Eugene since the 1935-1939 campaigns. Oregon’s gotten to this point by playing some incredible, in-your-face defense while starting point guard Dominic Artis has been out. Keeping the games low-scoring have keyed the current two-game streak the Ducks are on, and they have a pretty good chance to extend it to three on Saturday against Washington State.
  4. Is mediocre the right word to describe the Pac-12 this season? I don’t think so. It’s more of a case that anyone can beat anyone on any given night, resulting in some not-too-stellar conference records. In the Big Ten, the nation calls that great basketball. In the Pac-12, they use it as an excuse to put us down with the SEC in ranking of power conferences. Even the bottom of the league isn’t terrible. Washington State only lost by two to Gonzaga earlier in the season, Utah has dropped road games at BYU, Arizona State, and Arizona by a combined seven points, and Oregon State is probably the most talented tenth place team in the nation. Mediocre implies that this conferences boasts no good, just average teams. And while the Pac is far from their glory days, that’s just not true.
  5. Wednesday’s 60-55 upset over Arizona State was a big one psychologically for Utah, who may have been ready to call it a season if yet another second half lead was lost. The resilient Utes managed to knock down some key shots in the final two minutes, and mixed with some stellar defense and a loud student section, the Utes sent Arizona State to Boulder with a crushing blow to its tournament résumé. The key was staying calm and being patient, as too many times this season the Utes have gotten ahead of themselves and taken bad late shots. If they can continue this type of execution on Sunday against a reeling Arizona team, it might be time to start talking postseason.
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Kentucky Can Replace 10 Points Per Game, But Cats Can’t Replace Noel

Posted by Brian Joyce on February 15th, 2013

Brian Joyce is a writer for the SEC microsite and regular contributor for Rush The Court. Follow him on Twitter for more about SEC basketball at bjoyce_hoops.

Kentucky lost its leader in minutes, rebounds, steals, and blocks per game on Tuesday night to a tragic torn ACL. Nerlens Noel started every game this season for the Wildcats. He averaged double figures in points while shooting almost 60 percent from the field, and that from a player largely considered to be a project offensively. But UK lost so much more on Tuesday night than simply its best all-around player. John Calipari and his team lost the very intangible product on the court and in the locker room it searched for all season. Kentucky lost a big piece of its roster on Tuesday night, but statistics are replaceable. Kentucky lost its heart and soul. And the Wildcats aren’t likely to find that again this season.

Nerlens Noel's impact on Kentucky reaches far beyond the stat line.

Nerlens Noel’s impact on Kentucky reaches far beyond the stat line.

The real tragedy here is not in the hit on Kentucky’s NCAA chances, but for the student-athlete who must endure surgery and this unfortunate threat to his career. Kentucky’s ability to win basketball games is important to all of us who live and breathe college basketball every day, but we must remind ourselves that the players on that court are real people. They have real futures. And this particular person has a future that involves playing professional basketball. That point is not lost here, but was covered so well by ESPN.com writer Dana O’Neil’s coverage that doing lip service here just doesn’t do Noel justice. Read O’Neil’s piece as that echoes our sentiments of Noel the person, not just Noel the basketball player. The focus of this piece is on Noel the basketball player and his impact on Kentucky, and that impact reaches far beyond what you read in the box score.

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Duke and North Carolina Never Disappoint: Four Takeaways From Wednesday Night

Posted by EMann on February 15th, 2013

Ethan Mann is a writer for the ACC Microsite. He is a senior at Duke University who just attended his last home game as an undergraduate against North Carolina and re-watched the game on TV for further analysis.

As the saying goes — throw all the numbers out for Duke/North Carolina. Rankings, records and all the rest are immaterial. UNC had rarely been competitive against good competition this season until Wednesday night, and the last time an unranked North Carolina team came into Cameron Indoor Stadium, the Tar Heels were thrashed 82-50. This game was much different, as evidenced by the final score of 73-68.

Rasheed Sulaimon was a second-half catalyst in Duke's victory against North Carolina. (AP)

Rasheed Sulaimon was a second-half catalyst in Duke’s victory against North Carolina. (AP)

Here are four takeaways from the game:

  1. Why did North Carolina not use this lineup much earlier in the season? Roy Williams finally decided to start PJ Hairston (second on the team in offensive efficiency) alongside Reggie Bullock and James Michael McAdoo, and Hairston rewarded this choice by scoring 23 points and grabbing eight rebounds (seven of which were on the offensive end). Instead of starting offensive black hole Desmond Hubert, the head coach finally turned to a lineup with more offensive firepower so that his team did not fall into a massive early deficit like they did against Virginia Tech, NC State, and Miami, to name just a few. If North Carolina is going to make the NCAA Tournament and maximize its chances of winning there, Hairston must play starter’s minutes.
  2. James Michael McAdoo might be the most frustrating player in college basketball. McAdoo was preseason first-team all-ACC and some people might still vote him there because of his stats (he is averaging 14.6 points and 8.2 rebounds per game). However, this is a case where the stats do not match reality. McAdoo is an incredibly talented and athletic basketball player, but in reality he was mostly ineffective Wednesday night. He had a couple of highlight plays (including a nasty reverse dunk that gave UNC a 38-31 lead early in the second half), but following that play, he increasingly settled for mid-range jumpers, which he did not convert. And worse, the 57% FT shooter went just 1-of-5 from the line, including several crucial misses in crunch time. Why McAdoo settled for jump shots instead of going aggressively at the foul-prone Mason Plumlee was a bit of an enigma. He finished with nine points and eight rebounds on only 4-of-12 shooting, which is unacceptable for a player with his talents. Read the rest of this entry »
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RTC Bracketology: February 15 Edition

Posted by Daniel Evans on February 15th, 2013

bracketology

Daniel Evans (@bracketexpert) is RTC’s new resident bracketologist. According to Bracket Matrix, he ranks as one of the top several bracketologists among those who have produced brackets for more than three years, including two seasons with perfect bracket projections. He updates the field daily on his site, Bracketology Expert, and will be producing a weekly bracket update here at RTC on Fridays. RTC Bubble Watch will publish on Sunday nights and Thursday afternoons for the rest of the season.

New in This Update:

  • The top seed line might finally be taking shape again. Duke, Indiana, Florida, and Miami (FL) appear to have put a touch of separation between themselves and the trailing pack. The one team to watch out for is Michigan State. The Spartans destroyed Michigan on Tuesday night and moved into their highest seed position of the year (#2 seed).
  • Creighton is driving me nuts. The Bluejays are now a #10 seed. At one point this year, I had Creighton as a #5 seed. Although it is hard to see them missing the field, Creighton has at least made it a possibility with its recent poor play.
  • Colorado State is the team on the rise this week. The Rams won a big game on Wednesday night against San Diego State, which dropped the Aztecs from the #5 seed they were at before the game.  Illinois, who had barely been in the field a couple of weeks ago, is also rising fast now that the Illini are no longer five games under .500 in the Big Ten.
  • If there’s one team nobody can agree on, it is Virginia. The Cavaliers’ RPI is finally becoming stronger (now in the top 80). This team has six wins against the RPI top 100, which would usually be enough to get in during a season where the bubble is so weak. The problem is that the Cavaliers also have six bad losses, including three to the awful CAA.
  • Kentucky’s resume completely resets after Nerlens Noel’s ACL injury. If the Wildcats struggle down the stretch, they will not make the NCAA Tournament.
  • Selection Committee chair Mike Bobinski held a teleconference on Wednesday and made a great point about putting First Four teams in Dayton (or close to Dayton) for potential Second/Third Round games. In my brackets going forward, I will try do that as well. Look for those teams to be in Dayton, Kansas City, Auburn Hills, or Lexington on Selection Sunday.
  • I’m not sure what to do with Saint Mary’s just yet. The Gaels’ resume screams NIT right now and considering the only chances it had for a great win is now in the rear view mirror (0 for 2 vs. Gonzaga), the overall profile is not going to improve. However, everyone should keep in mind that the Selection Committee put Iona in last season’s field based off of the eye test and not on those Gaels’ overall profile. Could it happen again for another set of Gaels?
  • In the bracket below, Indiana and Duke would play in the Final Four. I realize this is against my actual S-curve order, but at this point I think you could throw all four No. 1 seeds in a hat and pick them one through four. I’ll wait for a little more of the season to play out before I put an extra half hour into changing out the regional pairings so that the best two teams won’t play until the national title game.

LAST FOUR IN: Boise State, Indiana State, California, Saint Mary’s
FIRST FOUR OUT: Virginia, Stanford, Temple, St. John’s

NOTE: Projected conference champions (or auto bid winners) are in capital letters.

(full bracket after the jump)

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Big Ten M5: 02.15.13 Edition

Posted by KTrahan on February 15th, 2013

morning5_bigten

  1. It’s been a rough few weeks for Glenn Robinson III, one of Michigan’s highly-touted freshmen who started the season strong, but then fell into a cold stretch. As Robinson III has struggled, so has his team, which has dropped consecutive games after finding itself at No. 1 in the nation just a few weeks ago. Robinson III’s five-game struggle has resulted in lower shooting and rebounding numbers, and it’s affected the Wolverines’ entire offense. When he scores at least 10 points, Michigan is 15-0; when he scores less than 10, the Wolverines are 5-4. Over the past five games, he has averaged just 6.2 points per game. Other players need to step up, as well, but for Michigan to turn things around, Robinson III needs to regain the form he showed earlier this season.
  2. Illinois has been wildly inconsistent on offense this year. The Illini are guard-oriented, so they’ve relied a lot on outside shots. When those shots are falling, they’ve been good, but there have also been some bad losses, most notably a double-digit home loss to Northwestern. However, Illinois has been on a recent surge, with wins over Indiana, Minnesota and Purdue. The key for the Illini has been offensive efficiency, and they graded out nicely in that area in the win against Purdue. The effective field goal percentage wasn’t great, but the Illini did well with their points per possession and turnover rate. John Groce’s team must continue to put up solid tempo-free stats in order to finish out the season strong.
  3. Indiana’s depth heading into the year was pretty incredible and one of the main reasons the Hoosiers were considered one of the best teams in the nation. While Victor Oladipo has stepped up more than most expected, the rest of IU’s squad wasn’t all that consistent. However, things are starting to get put together, with Cody Zeller and others playing better. Christian Watford is one of those players who has stepped up, and that was evident in the Hoosiers’ blowout of Nebraska. Watford has scored in double figures in 17 straight Big Ten games dating back to last season, and he’s done so in the last 15 games this year. He gives an IU team full of weapons yet another scoring option, and that wealth of options is what makes the Hoosiers so dangerous.
  4. Matt Painter wasn’t happy with much Wednesday night. Not with his team, and certainly not with the officials. Purdue fell to Illinois and the Boilermakers were forced to finish the game without their coach, who was ejected with around eight minutes left in the game. The issue wasn’t in doubt at that point, so Painter was really just trying to light a fire under his team, which has lost five of its last seven games. The Boilermakers have a very young team and were expected to struggle, and now their streak of six consecutive NCAA Tournament appearances looks to be in serious jeopardy. Now, it’s about building momentum heading into next year, and Painter hopes Wednesday night’s loss ignites some sort of spark.
  5. Early this season, Minnesota looked like it could have been one of the top 10 teams in the country. However, a recent, long losing streak has started some talk of the Golden Gophers falling back onto the bubble. Tubby Smith still needs to get more consistency from his team, but Thursday night’s overtime win over Wisconsin has to be encouraging for a team that was desperate for a win. Minnesota’s star guard Andre Hollins got his mojo back and led to Gophers to the win in an overall gutsy team performance against the rival Badgers. Even after falling behind by 10 points — a tough deficit to come back from against Wisconsin — Minnesota stayed patient and used strong defense to crawl back into the game. It wasn’t pretty, but it ended up being a possible season-saving win for the Gophers.
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ACC M5: 02.15.13 Edition

Posted by mpatton on February 15th, 2013

morning5_ACC

  1. Fayetteville Observer: Props to Brett Strelow for finding useful information from the hideous headliner for ESPN’s Rivalry Week. Strelow focused on Tyler Thornton, paralleling the short defensive-minded Duke point guard to another short defensive-minded Duke point guard Steve Wojciechowski. The story commented on Thornton possibly becoming a coach (something I hadn’t thought about before but would make a lot of sense) as well as Mike Krzyzewski fighting North Carolina’s small line-up (and foul trouble) with Thornton at the four. All in all, it was a terrible game, but there’s a lot of good stuff here. As an aside, this shouldn’t be a story. After the game, Coach K ran out on the court to keep his players and security off the court (there was a weird clock situation where it didn’t start and then started late), not to stop the fans from rushing the court.
  2. Riddick and Reynolds: James Curle took the ACC to task for wasting its last shot at a somewhat normal schedule before conference expansion truly takes hold. This year, for the first time since adding Virginia Tech, Boston College and Miami, the ACC had more home and homes than single game series. But the schedule is just as unbalanced as ever. Duke only plays two of its seven home and homes on either the first or second half of its schedule, meaning only Maryland and Miami get Duke on both sides of the halfway point in conference play. It seems like the conference would take advantage of the 18-game season, but no.
  3. Gobbler Country: It’s no secret Virginia Tech‘s basketball team is struggling. A lot of that blame lies with Jim Weaver, the athletic director, for firing Seth Greenberg a month after the season ended. The justification–which unlike the timing and method made sense–was that Greenberg’s staff turnover wasn’t sustainable. But it’s starting to look like the turnover is as much a result of Weaver’s cheapness as Greenberg’s abrasiveness. That’s an issue. And will hamper Virginia Tech now and in the future. You have to invest in a coach and a staff to succeed year in and year out in college basketball. If Virginia Tech won’t pay up, Weaver can’t expect top-flight results. End of story.
  4. The Virginian-Pilot: In case you haven’t been watching Charlottesville closely, Joe Harris has been phenomenal. Like first-team All-ACC phenomenal. He’s got the Cavaliers in sole possession of third place in the ACC (with some help from the ACC’s aforementioned unbalanced schedule) and in surprising contention for a bid to the Big Dance. He’s doing it with great shooting that’s finally broken free of his streakiness of past.
  5. NBC Sports: Miami isn’t used to the big-time on the hardwood, and the Hurricanes clearly need some work on sologans (though Michigan’s “We On” wasn’t much better). They went with “40 Minutes of L” with a picture of Jim Larranaga. The obvious problems are the Hurricanes don’t run Nolan Richardson’s defense and that “L” will always be associated with losing.
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