Comments on: Operation: Scheyerface v2.0

By: rfan

rfan — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 03:05:46 +0000

They hit Carlos Boozer’s mother with a bottle of water, not a battery. So wherez the problem?

By: rtmsf

rtmsf — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:12:22 +0000

In reply to CP.

CP – ok I see where you’re going with this, but let me stress that it’s contextual. The point of the article was to try to explain the “swoon” – it could be variance, but I doubt it. Bad matchups, definitely. I mentioned that they typically play both UNC games in Feb/Mar.

Maybe the 06 Devils were terrible, but they looked like a lot of other top 10 Duke teams until February hit.

I really don’t think it matters what other programs do, but it’s clear that you do. Would it be fair to say that Duke has swooned the last 5-7 yrs vs. earlier in the Coach K era? It seemed as if his teams got stronger as the year went on up until around 1995. You tell me if that’s true.

By: Redickulously Funny

Redickulously Funny — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:17:48 +0000

How can you call this not funny? link

By: Josh

Josh — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 03:40:44 +0000

Dave, I don’t think chanting DUI is THAT out of the line. I consider a drunk driving, where you put others at risk, to be a serious offense as does the law….reminding a player of that is something the player deserves so that maybe he’ll realize how stupid he is. I don’t care who the player is.

What is out of line though is this: http://www.terpcenter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7054 . In case you’re curious, that IS the Duke hotel and they are staying there….Seriously, no class. You should try and beat your opponents on the floor, not try to bother them in their hotel.

By: Dave

Dave — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 20:59:21 +0000

CP, it was a water bottle that concussed Boozer’s mom. Not that it’s any better. I think Terps fans have too few traditions to hold on to: singing “hey, you suck”, fight songs, teenage mutant ninja turtles theme, 2 different versions of “let’s go maryland” in which maryland has either 2 or 3 syllables, and yeah, that’s pretty much it. There used to be a group of guys who got in the stadium first every week and sat midcourt on the md bench side who started the positive cheers, which was good. there’s a few groups now who do that. it’s not real organized, which is more maryland style. we’re not preppy cheat sheet kind of people i don’t think. now once someone starts a swearing cheer, it gets picked up. I think there’s a lot of “well, no one respects md, so f— all of you” mentality. Is it deserved? MD is kind of the younger brother to these programs, which have had far more success over a longer period of time, so there’s a natural inclination to want to fight to prove themselves (Which explains a lot of why Gary gets the people he gets, I think). There’s been plenty of instances where UNC/Duke players/fans have said that MD is not a rival. Well then, who is? UVA? Geographically, maybe, but MD doesn’t have a real rival. When no one is your rival, everyone is your rival. So they go after everybody.

they went with “DUI” for Ty Lawson during free throws. He sank every one of them and glared at the crowd. But that probably won’t stop them from doing the next offensive chant.

By: frankiepack

frankiepack — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 18:27:43 +0000

you all best look out for ncstate sid’s got them boy’s ballin now…………

By: Josh

Josh — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 06:54:27 +0000

rtmsf, given that the line monitors are a student-run group (I don’t know who the school liason with them is for that matter), i doubt such an idea of vetting would be effective and fairly run….

That said, the line process and the tenting process DOES give the best seats to those who are the most devoted. It’s just that some who get in aren’t the quality of fan one might hope for. Still, the best seats these people get are usually around the middle of the student section rather than the front, so that’s not the problem.

By: rtmsf

rtmsf — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 06:36:04 +0000

In reply to Josh.

Josh – thanks again for a well-thought out response. I’m wondering why couldn’t the line monitors use some kind of vetting process to determine who the “real” fans are? Duke being Duke, I’m sure the really motivated kids would study up just like any other test; but would the others? I’ve heard stories about the line monitors being nazis about some of the rules, so it wouldn’t seem like that big of a leap for me that they would enable some kind of process to ensure that the best fans are rewarded with the choice seats.

One thing I do agree with you completely on is that the Cameron Crazies, as cliched as they’ve become, are still better than 95% of fans in college basketball. I think there are some fan groups that are a little more informed, but the fact that they’re consistently loud and boisterous counts for a lot.

By: Josh

Josh — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 01:56:43 +0000

(Pretty sure everyone knows who the G-Man is, considering he does acc coverage for Raycom (i think) and FSN and is frequently seen before games on the floor. Those who don’t know almost always would ask, who’s the really tall dude (He’s 6’11”).)

As for the students….meh. I try. I’m a senior and am quite impassioned (Hell, I’ve gone to every football game at home the last 2 years and went to an away game at wake this year (in football and BBall).) I blame personally what is now the Junior class myself….my freshman year (05, Redick and Shelden’s last year) we packed every game and everyone cared was incredible, but the year after (when the 2010 class came in) the frosh’s attendence was really really poor (for us, mind you. For others probably not, I’m sure we were something like 90% or 95% or whatever). AFAIK it hasn’t been as much the case the last two years, as I’ve not heard as much complaints on those classes and their awareness of Duke BBall. I suppose every now and then one bad “recruiting class” of fans will come to every school (:-P).

As for tests and everything…meh, it’s impossible to do. The only thing i could see is if the line monitors give a quiz on Duke Basketball to people trying to sign up for white (the shorter version of) tenting, but even then it’d be very possible that these fans would still sneak through. (As once a tent is signed up, a person can drop and another can join without any problems).

Basically, the only ones who could pull such a stunt off are the Line Monitors, and there’s something to be said about that whole group and their selection process (I’m NOT a line monitor, so my comments are not fully informed btw). Incidentally, w/regards to the cheer sheets you mentioned earlier, the line monitors have this year basically made themselves open with lines of communication for people to suggest things for cheers. For UNC the cheer sheets had some fun ones (My favorite was one for Hansblah, “You Flop! You Whine! You Travel Every Time!”) but a lot of the times there’s simply pure info on there and nothing about how to translate that into cheers (We did have for the Gtown game a great one about one of their players (Sims, i think?) having a stepfather with the last name “Awkward,” which led to some fun chants. )

Incidentally, you’re talking to only a few fans here, which is interesting but could be better. I think a fun idea for a post would be to get a few guys from Duke Basketball Report, Inside Carolina, and other college Boards and have a talk about these things. I don’t think these problems are particular to Duke (Despite bad fans getting in due to tenting, at least tenting is an effort to get into the game that requires work, rather than getting in due to a lottery…which is lame) and it’d be more interesting to see what others would say about these things.

I don’t know where you went to school or who you root for, for example.

By: rtmsf

rtmsf — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 01:35:28 +0000

In reply to Josh. Thanks for the impassioned response, Josh. The way I see it is that you guys who are still on campus there at Duke should take ownership and responsibility for the CCs so that those students who are just there to be seen or whatever are not part of it. Give them a test on Duke basketball history (alternatively, the Jim Harrick Jr. test on basketball) or something to earn that seat down by the floor. Anybody can make a silly costume, but do any of those kids know who Mike Gminski or Vic Bubas are? Heck, do they even know who Danny Ferry or Alaa Abdelnaby are? Anything to make it better because it's almost gotten to the point where it's cliched and that's actually a bad thing for college basketball.

By: Josh

Josh — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 01:23:16 +0000

With regards to the link on bench burning after the Gtown game, I’m a senior here and I can confirm we do not burn the benches unless its vs UNC. The link you site refers to a bench-burning in 1989! when Duke UPSET Gtown. Better? Maybe not. But I’m not sure if we had the bench-burning tradition as worked out then as we do now, where its regulated and setup only after beating UNC at Cameron.

There has (Sadly) only been one bonfire here during my tenure here at Duke, and that was in 07 after the Duke WOMEN beat UNC, capping an undefeated regular season (which would then be ended a week later to Kay Yow and then they’d get upset by Rutgers, but you get the point). That was a BONFIRE. The random dumbass georgetown bench burning is not.

With regards to the fans….I’ love to disagree on some points about the fans being knowledgable and somewhat. For example the two girls (Sophomores, it turned out) in front of me on line on Sunday were quite knowledgable, as are all my friends. But for some here at Duke, the BBall experience is part of the experience, and they go because its the “thing to do”. Sad, but true. Even more so with tenting, in which some of the lower tents (those who white tent are particular culprits) there are students who tent to say they did it, and may not even have gone to any games at all before the UNC Game!

Finally, with regards to Maryland, I’d disagree. UNC fans know how to try and work up for a game, and how to prepare. They’re civilized and smart at it and intelligent. Maryland fans are vicious and hateful and spiteful. See the rioting above. They’re just a bit….well, ugh. I fear for our team after every game at college park, since they need freaking SECURITY to get out of their alive. The same isn’t the case at Chapel Hill, and that’s not because of the closeness to campus.

In all, yeah, some of the crazies have gotten lame. But as a whole, we’re still a freaking awesome force of nature, that most places can’t duplicate since their stadiums are built for selling tickets rather than for the fans. I was at the Wake game AT wake earlier this year, and their fans were quiet and lame. Nothing is like us. And this is in a down-stretch.

By: CP

CP — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 01:15:54 +0000

My point about being illogical is that it is not really a swoon if lots of other elite programs go through the same thing. Maybe it’s simple variance? Bad match ups?

Also, I think that you are wrong on saying those Duke teams were good. The ’06 Devils were a terrible team. A generous 6 seed in the NCAA tourney. They fattened up on lousy opponents early on, but no one thought that was a really good team at any point.

Also, you’re wrong about UCONN. In ’05, they were a 2 seed. In ’06, a 1 seed. In ’08, they were a 4 seed. Pretty good teams, no?

It’s only a swoon if they are drastically underperforming what other elite programs do.

By: rtmsf

rtmsf — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:51:47 +0000

In reply to CP.

CP – understood on your points about the CCs and the bench burning. We obviously have to admit that bench burning isn’t the same as an actual riot.

As for the Duke Swoon article, there is no such assumption, implicit or otherwise in that article. UConn hasn’t had a swoon in those years b/c they weren’t very good in those years – if you’re not very good to begin with, then there is no “swoon” to be had. Your whole season was a swoon. UNC had a swoon from 2001-2004. Kentucky has had one for the last four years. Clemson was the other team that we noted has a tendency to make a hot start within a given season and then falter. Obviously, the Clemson Swoon, which we’ve documented MANY times on this site, is far, far worse than the Duke one.

The point is that the article wasn’t poorly researched nor illogical. It’s quite logical. Duke, for whatever reasons in the past several years (some of which we speculated upon) doesn’t play as well in Feb/Mar of the regular season as they do in Nov-Jan. That’s a fact. It has no bearing or relationship with other programs such as Pitt or UConn or Kentucky or UCLA. The point of the article was not to survey the top 10 programs and analyze this; the point of the article was to point out a single trend (with possible reasons to explain it) for one of the pre-eminent (and therefore most publicized) programs in America.

By: rtmsf

rtmsf — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:41:51 +0000

In reply to Tony.

Tony – thanks for the respectful comment. I remember the Nik Caner-Medley incident, and that would be another example of one of the creative and funny things I have seen Md fans do over the years. I’m also thinking about some of the photoshops I’ve seen, but maybe I shouldn’t be giving Maryland fans so much credit for that.

I will also admit that the Terp fans tend to be foul-mouthed, aggressive and off-color at the actual games; but what do you expect from a bunch of state school quasi-Yankees?

The cheer sheet thing at Duke really perturbs me, though. You mentioned groupthink – between that and the costumes where the CCs seem to want to be the show over of the players on the floor, it’s been many a year since they were actually clever. And I question how much many of them even know about the game of basketball anymore. If I see one more time where people cheer after an obvious on-the-floor foul where the player continues on well after the whistle and makes the bucket, I’m going to lose it. And that goes for fans of any team, but I have noticed that several times this year at Duke games in CIS.

By: CP

CP — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:35:07 +0000

No argument whatsoever on the Crazies. The Crazies of the last 10 yrs are the dorkiest, least socially adjusted part of the school. It’s not what it used to be.

Bench burning is a tradition at the school. While there has been an impromptu blaze at least once, it is generally well controlled, monitored by the fire marshall, etc. It is not analogous to what has gone in College Park-not even close.

Here’s the problem with the Duke Swoon-it assumes that other programs of equal stature have exceeded Duke’s achievements. Some have, but many have not. For example, since 2004 (the date of each of UCONN’s and Duke’s last Final 4), Duke arguably has a better tournament resume than UCONN. Why are we not hearing about the UCONN swoon? 2d Round Exit in ’05, Elite 8 choke to Mason in ’06, no tournament in ’07, 1st Rd Exit in ’08. There are numerous other examples (e.g. Pitt).

My problem is that the article sets out to make the argument that Duke nosedives more than others in March and then plucks statistics without looking at what other elite programs have done. It cherry picks statistics and does not look at the whole landscape.