Comments on: Checking in on the…Big 12

By: Patrick Marshall

Patrick Marshall — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:07:22 +0000

Clint–The week before I had A&M sitting at #1 and Oklahoma St. #8, so it was hard for me to push Okie St. so far up to be over A&M and A&M to fall so far. I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt right now because really A&M is/was overachieving and the game was in Stillwater. Expected loss anyway for A&M since a road game so really not that big of a factor.

Like you however, I did have A&M going 0-5 to start conference play in my predictions, so it will all shake out in the end.

By: Patrick Marshall

Patrick Marshall — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:03:34 +0000

Chet–I’ll go ahead and defend myself…I’ll give Kansas credit, they stuck with Mich. St. for the first 14 minutes of the game and then after that all heck broke loose. Next thing you know Kansas is down 19 at the half and then it was almost like Michigan St. was coasting the 2nd half. When you get a huge lead like that by halftime, 9 times out of 10 the leading team doesn’t have the same drive and determination the second half and it is keeping players focused to at least finish and keep status quo. Honestly, if Michigan St. came out the second half and played like they did in the first it would have been at least 30. So in my mind it “was” a drilling. However, with so many different contributors to this blog, perceptions and word use may be different depending on the person. So maybe drilling was a wrong word, but Kansas didn’t look very good period.

I can acknowledge that Kansas has a young team, but frankly I don’t think this team with a bunch of freshman/young players is coming around the same way that Rush, Chalmers, etc. did.

By: nvr1983

nvr1983 — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:35:08 +0000

Chet–
Thanks for the comment (re: good work).
(1) Fair point. I am not the original author of the post so I can’t really speak to his thinking, but just watching the game (and admittedly I was watching about a half dozen other games at the same time) it never really looked like the game was in doubt. Every time I watched for a few minutes, the Spartans appeared to be dominating. I don’t really think teams collapse/choke during the middle of the game since the most pressure is at the end of the game (unless someone is lighting a victory cigar). I watched the last 5-6 minutes of that game and the Spartans just got really sloppy. I guess you can attribute that to Kansas, but the Spartans didn’t have any trouble with them all game and Kalin Lucas should be able to navigate the Jayhawks with ease. I agree that using the term “drilling” is debatable, but I happen to agree with the author on this one.
(2) Thanks for the clarification. I guess I’m just not in touch with the Internet lingo. No worries about the language. Yesterday, my colleague rtmsf posted a lead story with the phrase “Teague Bagged” in it. . .
(3) I’m not really shocked by 2 guys with a combined ~40% FT (rough approximation) going 0/4. Not doing the math again, but I’m less surprised by that than two 75% FT shooters going 1/5. If you’re not sure what I am referring to, look at your t-shirt right now.

Their loss to the #12 team in the country wasn’t as ugly as the Spartans 35 point loss to UNC, but we also didn’t write a post making fun of Kansas for their performance. So those are probably the lines between a loss, a “drilling”, and getting a post making fun of your awful performance.

By: Chet

Chet — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:01:05 +0000

(1) “The game wasn’t as close…” – We were up 9 early in the 2nd half against Arizona earlier this year (lost by 17), we were also down 9 very late in the 2nd half against Memphis in the championship game (I think you know the outcome of that one).
“The only reason it was so close was the Spartans almost collapsed at the end” – Doesn’t this work both ways, I think you could also argue that the only reason it wasn’t closer was that KU collapsed in the middle of the game?
Point is, unless the other team puts there scrubs in the last 5 or 10 minutes & the losing team closes the gap significantly due to this, the game is pretty much exactly equal to what the final score indicates. See Joe Posnanski’s thoughts on these types of statements.
(2) FYI – Give me a f’n break, looking back probably a little harsh choice of wording, my apologies.
(3) Fair points, although Marcus Morris & TR were still below their season FT average in the game.

MSU obviously deserved to win the game I just didn’t like how it was described as a “drilling” in the article twice. To me, a 13-point loss on the road to the #8 team in the country is just not a “drilling”, especially considering that the line for the game . MSU got drilled earlier in the year by UNC. Where do you consider the cutoff between a “drilling” & just a win? Maybe, if KU was favored to win the game I could sign off on that.

Also, enjoy the site, keep up the good work.

By: nvr1983

nvr1983 — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:47:33 +0000

Chet–
(1) The game wasn’t as close as the final score indicates. Michigan State was up by 21 early in the 2nd half. The only reason it was so close was the Spartans almost collapsed at the end.
(2) GMAFB? I have no idea what that means.
(3) If Kansas shot their normal 72.5% FT they would have been 20/28 from the FT line so they would have lost by 10. I’m too lazy (and don’t find it worthwhile) to do a statistical analysis of it, but I’m pretty sure that falls within a standard deviation (definitely within 2 SDs) of their normal FT shooting. Unfortunately for Kansas, some of the guys who went to the line are not particularly good at hitting uncontested 15 footers. Marcus Morris (0/2) is a 56.4% FT shooter and Travis Releford (0/2) is a 35.7% FT shooter.

By: Chet

Chet — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:16:54 +0000

A 13 point loss on the road to the #8 team in the country is a “drilling”? GMAFB, if we would have shot our normal clip from the FT line it would have been a single-digit loss.

By: Clint

Clint — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:15:29 +0000

A&M at 4 and OSU at 6?? Really?? The game in Stillwater wasn’t as close as the score indicates and the Cowboys didn’t even shoot that well. School wasn’t in session so the usually rabid crowd was a little more subdued. Turgeon was clearly outcoached and A&M could start out 0-5 in conference.

By: wildjays

wildjays — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:41:29 +0000

Yep you are right. I got that confused. I had watched so many of those San Juan games, I got it all mixed up in my head. But it was a close 75-71 game and a good one at that. Sorry.

By: Manco

Manco — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:47:01 +0000

It was Virginia Tech that was defeated by Xavier on the half-court shot in San Juan.